On gay cakes

Hi All,

Silly old me for mentioning to someone I know that I support the Christians bakers , florists etc on both sides of the Atlantic on wanting to refuse services e.g. gay wedding or political slogans in support of or to gay/  straight couples.

The feedback  from my aghast opponents, I've tried to list below. You will note comments in brackets are why I think people hold these views. I cannot say for certain because with this conversations you cannot get passed the initial remarks. You're labelled as a bigoted traitor and that's the end of the matter.

1). It's bigoted [ how  dare they refuse service to someone for what they are. Would you agree to refuse service for blacks and Jews?]

2). It's discriminatory [see point 1. This is added separately to make you feel even more guilty]

3).  It's hypocritical [do  Christian cake makers ask or refuse people's  divorce status or whether  straight couple has had premarital sex. What about straight couples with children, but are going to get married after five years of cohabitation?]

4). How can you as a lesbian? [ not said but implied: and betray LGBTQ]

5). How can you as a Jew?[ less subtle , because Nazis boycotted Jewish businesses and destroyed them].

My response - if I'd have been permitted -  Would be along the following lines.

Before one can counter any of these things , it may be worth stating why I would support Christians to refuse" gay cakes". 

The reason is that I believe philosophically  in free markets with limited regulation and therefore punishment limited to "pragmatic" matters,  which are  so obvious to any one with a brain. For example regulations or punishment for cake makers if they use poisonous or gone off ingredients to make the cake, their standards of hygiene and food storage etc. 

It is  not , however, the job or role of the state to police and therefore discriminate who can and cannot be a seller or purchaser of a cake or product.  This neatly answers all of the objections people come up with or at least the five above.

In a free market it should be acceptable for businesses and also customers to not be forced to buy or sell to each other. Whether this is bigoted or discrimination is irrelevant,  but let's assume it is bigotry and discrimination. So what? It is up to the two parties involved in a service as to whether or not they wish to participate with each other. 

Likewise in the land of free markets there will be or there will be founded businesses which are ready and willing to provide this service, because there is now a market opening for such stuff. If I was refused services for being gay or Jewish I would simply look to someone who would provide that service. If there wasn't one, I'd simply set one up myself. In fact it's good Christians don't want to service gays , because this gives a budding entrepreneur an immediate pool of customers who can't go elsewhere. 

In respect of point 3 , this is irreverent to the discussion because it is up to the business to decide whom they wish to serve. Yes they are hypocritical here, almost no doubt about that and no doubt they'd not refuse or query a previously  divorced couple or ask about premarital sex.  But let that rest on their conscience and let them wriggle out of such moral , as aside to business questions.

Points 4 and 5  are a repetition of the same argument. But to answer it on the personal (as it is a personal attack)  is to note that being a Jew who is a lesbian is what I am. It doesn't mean that I as an individual intellectual person has to sign up to a group think that's dictated top down by a tiny group of self appointed activists. There's no elections by the gay community for these activists. Even if there were, I see it as my obligation to act as her majesty's loyal opposition.  The wider  LGBTQ idea is a ridiculous alphabet soup and a topic for another day, but suffice to say I don't agree with that idea anyways.  But above all I will NOT be used as cannon fodder to leftist battering ram for self appointed social justice warriors to impose their agendas on me and other people. In fact I'd rather get on quietly with my life and with my partner Sarah, than wage social justice warrior jihad against non gays.

There is one final and serious point about this comparison with Nazis  etc.  As I said I philosophically believe in free markets with minimal government interference.  The freer the market, the freer society is.  But with the Nazi boycott, the pogroms of Russia, the Spanish inquisition, how Iraq boycotted Jewish businesses 1941-1950  &  the apartheid / segregation toward blacks in south Africa / deep south .... pause for breath, became policy, was enforced and implemented not by private individuals, but by the aegis and authoritarian hand of state power. Thus precisely because I'm Jewish and lesbian, do I want to curtail the power of government . You never know when powers granted to a government to do xyz becomes a way of doing  the unintended abc (e.g. various local councils using anti terror laws to deal with bin collection issues).

Discuss.